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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  October 5, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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10/05/15 10/05/15 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica this is democracy now! a planehappened is ways,d and in several they came for or five times over the hospital and every time extremely precisely hit with a series of impacts on the main building on the hospital. this led to the horrible results that you see. amy: the u.s. bombs like hospital run by doctors without
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borders, killing 22 people, the majority children and staff. doctors without borders is calling it a war crime and amending an independent investigation -- amending an independent investigation. we will speak with kathy kelly , who wasino strada head of emergency that cares for the were wounded in afghanistan and countries around the world. then the economics of climate change. >> where calling for looking at the root causes of what is driving climate change and also using climate change as a catalyst to build a fair, economic system and what we show in the film is people are doing this very organically. amy: we will speak with naomi klein and phil maker avi lewis about their document rate, "#enough! a campaign to end war and focus on food and health." this as south carolina deals with the thousand year storm. all of that and more coming up.
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welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. doctors without borders is to manning an independent inquiry into a suspected u.s. airstrike on an afghan hospital that killed 22 people in an afghan hospital saying it may be a war crime. 12 step members were killed and 10 patients were killed including three children. at least three dozen people were injured. the strikes reportedly continued for 30 minutes after the united states and afghan militaries were informed by telephone that the hospital was being bombed. kunduz has been the scene of fierce fighting since last week. on sunday, doctors without borders announced he would have to withdraw from kunduz were it operated the only free trauma care hospital in northern afghanistan. we will have more on the story after headlines. in northern syria, airstrikes have killed a family of five and a rescue worker who was searching for victims of the attack on saturday.
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it is unclear who carried out the airstrike. the region has been regularly bombed by the syrian government and now by russia, which began bombing syria last week. in other news from syria, the self-proclaimed islamic state has destroyed another key monument in the ancient city of palmyra. the reported destruction of the arch of triumph comes after isil already destroyed two ancient temples at palmyra, described by unesco as one of the most important cultural centers of the ancient world. in south carolina, at least eight people have been killed and one -- roads and buildings have buckled, a swath of a major highways been shut down and hundreds of people had to be rescued from the rising waters. more than a foot of rain fell overnight in the capital columbia, where all residents have been told to boil their water before it thinking it.
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south carolina governor nikki haley said the rain is that a 1000 year level. >> when you think about what we're sitting in right now, we are at a 1000 year level of rain in parts of the low country. what does that mean? we haven't seen this level of rain in the low country in 1000 years. that is how big this is. that is how south carolina -- what south carolina is dealing with. the river is at its highest level since 1936. amy: meanwhile, the search continues for the missing cargo elfaro that disappeared with 33 people on board. scientists have warned it is being fueled by climate change. we will have more on climate change later in the broadcast. in guatemala, at least 130 have died and more than 300 more are still missing after a landslide buried parts of el cambray, a village about 10 miles east of guatemala city. the landslide was caused by heavy rain and flooding in the
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region. the united states and 11 other pacific rim countries are said to be nearing an agreement on the transpacific partnership, a trait type encompassing about 40% of the global economy. the deal could be announced as early as today after negotiators meeting behind closed doors in atlanta, georgia reportedly reached a deal on the so-called "death sentence clause," extending drug company monopolies on medicines. the united states and drug companies had pressed for longer monopolies on new biotech drugs, while multiple countries opposed the push, saying it could deny life-saving medicines to patients who cannot afford high prices. the compromise reportedly includes monopolies of between five and eight years. at least four people have been arrested protesting the secret negotiations over the tpp, which they say will aid corporations at the expense of health, environmental and labor protections. if a deal is reached, congress will have at least 90 days to review the tpp before president obama can sign it.
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tensions are escalating between turkey and russia after turkey reportedly intercepted a russian warplane flying in its ears base over the weekend. this comes as turkey is issued sharp condemnation. in image surfaced on social media appearing to show a government security truck dragging a corpse to the streets of the southeastern town. the town has been intense fighting in recent days between turkish forces and kurdish militants. israel's hard palestinians from entering jerusalem's old city and less they live in the city amidst escalating clashes in jerusalem and across the occupied west bank. this comes after two israeli men were stabbed to death in jerusalem by a palestinian man on saturday. israeli troops also shot and killed a palestinian teenager in the west bank sunday. the red crescent says says more than 90 palestinians have been
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shot and wounded by israeli security forces or jewish settlers with either live ammunition or rubber-coated steel bullets since saturday. prime minister benjamin netanyahu is vowing a "fight to the death against palestinian terror." in the united states, father of the gunman who killed nine people last week at the community college in oregon has criticized u.s. gun policies, which allowed his son to amass an arsenal of weapons. ian mercer, father of chris harper-mercer, made the comments in an interview with cnn. >> the question i would like to ask is, how on earth could he compile 15 guns? how can that happen? they talk about gun laws, they talk about gun control -- every time something like this happens, they talk about it, and nothing is done. i'm not trying to say that is to blame for what happened, but if chris had not been able to get a
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hold of these guns, it would not have happened. amy: an autopsy has confirmed chris harper-mercer killed himself after killing eight of his classmates and a professor. meanwhile, in northern california, four high school students have been arrested as part of what authorities are calling a highly detailed mass shooting plot at their high school. no weapons have been found. republican presidential candidate jeb bush has come under criticism for his response to the massacre in oregon. speaking friday afternoon, bush said "stuff happens." ,>> we are reporting a difficult time in our country and i don't believe more government is necessarily the answer to this. i think we need to reconnect with mental health systems. it is sad to see, but i resist -- i had this challenge is governor. stuff happens. there's always a crisis. the impulse is always to do something, and it is not necessarily the right thing to do. amy: fellow republican presidential contender donald trump also argued against gun
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control saying on nbc's meet the , press mass shooters are "geniuses in a certain way. they are going to be able to break the system," trump said. in more news from the campaign trail, democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders drew a massive crowd of 20,000 people in boston saturday as he continues to lead hillary clinton in polls in new hampshire and iowa. the rally was the largest for a presidential primary candidate in massachusetts in recent history. meanwhile, members of the boston chapter of students for justice in palestine say they were approached by police and told the sanders campaign was asking them to take down their signs, which read, "will ya feel the bern for palestine?" the active sa after they began filming the interaction, they were told they had to leave or face arrest for "verbal trespassing." education secretary arne duncan has announced he is stepping down in december. president obama has named deputy education secretary john b. king jr. as acting education secretary, avoiding a senate battle to confirm a replacement for duncan. king previously served as new
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york state's education commissioner, where he came under criticism for advocating high-stakes standardized testing linked to teacher evaluations, policies which have sparked a historic statewide testing boycott by students and parents. arne duncan has faced criticism for advocating similar policies at the national level. utah congressmember jason chaffetz is making a bid to replace john boehner as speaker of the house, challenging boehner's presumed successor, house majority leader kevin mccarthy. chaffetz has been a leading critic of planned parenthood during recent house hearings targeting the organization. alabama has announced plans to shutter 31 drivers license offices. in areas which are disproportionately african american. the move comes after the state approved a voter id law requiring a government-issued id to vote. birmingham news columnist john archibald wrote -- "every single county in which blacks make up more than 75% of registered voters will see their driver license office closed. every one."
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the vatican has fired high-ranking polish priest after he came out as gay on the eve of a key meeting of world bishops to discuss topics including homosexuality. monsignor krzysztof charamsa said coming out was a difficult decision within the catholic church, which opposes homosexuality. >> my decision to come out is a very personal decision and the homophobic world of the catholic church. it is been very difficult and very hard. i ask you keep in mind this reality, that it is difficult to understand for anyone who is not live through identical passage in her own life. amy: the vatican's decision to fire charamsa comes after pope francis' visit to the united states, where he drew criticism for meeting with kim davis, the county clerk in kentucky who has refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. but the vatican now says davis was among "several dozen invited by the nunciature" to greet pope francis as he arrived and that
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the meeting "should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects." the vatican said the only "real audience" granted by francis was with a former student, whom cnn identified as yayo grassi, an openly gay man who brought his partner to the meeting with the pope. a 15-year-old boy who is believed to be the youngest convicted of terrorism charges in britain was sentenced to at least five years in prison for plotting to behead police officers at an australian military parade. the boy was not accused of taking any actions beyond sending messages online. the judge said "had the authorities not intervened, the teenager would've continued to play his part hoping and intending that the outcome would be the deaths of a number of people." three scientists have won the nobel prize for medical breakthroughs in treatment of parasitic diseases that afflict more than a third of the world's population. irish scientist william campbell and japanese scientist satoshi
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omura developed a new drug that has lowered the incidence of fatal diseases caused by parasitic worms. they shared the award with chinese scientist youyou tu who developed a drug that has significantly reduced death rates from malaria. australia has deported american anti-choice extremist troy newman, heading of the militant -- head of the militant anti-abortion group operation rescue. the group is known for its targeted harassment of abortion clinic workers, including murdered abortion provider dr. george tiller. newman had planned to travel to australia for an anti-choice speaking tour, but australian authorities cancelled his visa amid fears his call for abortion providers could lead to violence against women and medical professionals. newman attempted to enter australia illegally without the visa, but was detained and deported. australian parliament member terri butler said newman had flouted australian law. >> the guide on the plane knowing he did not have a visa and tried to get past immigrations and customs. you can get more contemptuous than that. amy: troy newman says he plans
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to attempt to enter australia again. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. doctors without borders is demanding an independent international inquiry into a suspected u.s. air strike saturday on an afghan hospital in the city of kunduz that killed 22 people -- 12 staff members and 10 patients including three children. , at least three dozen people were injured. the attack continued for 30 minutes after the united states and afghan militaries were informed by telephone that the hospital was being bombed. bart janssens, the director of operators for doctors without borders, described the attack. >> we now know an aerial attack of which clearly the signature of -- an indication that it is being carried out by the international coalition forces in afghanistan. what happened is that a plane ,rrived and in several ways
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they came for or five times over the hospital and every time, extremely precisely, hit with a series of impacts on the main building of the hospital. this led to the horrible results that you see. the hospital is there since four years. the compound is larger than a football ground. and we ask several times, communicated your gps coordinates, the exact location of the hospital to all warring parties in afghanistan. so really don't understand and we definitely do not accept the notification of collateral damage as we heard in the beginning of the first reaction. amy: the general director christopher stokes said in a statement -- "under the clear presumption that a war crime has been committed, msf demands that a full and transparent investigation into the event be conducted by an independent international body. relying only on an internal investigation by a party to the conflict would be wholly insufficient."
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kunduz has been the scene of fierce fighting since the taliban seized the city last week. on sunday, doctors without borders announced it would have to withdraw from kunduz where they operated the only free trauma care hospital in northern afghanistan. some afghan officials said the was justified -- the airstrike was justified claiming taliban , fighters had used the hospital. doctors without borders rejected the claim saying -- "these statements imply that afghan and u.s. forces working together decided to raze to the ground a fully functioning hospital with more than 180 staff and patients inside because they claim that members of the taliban were present. this amounts to an admission of a war crime. this utterly contradicts the initial attempts of the u.s. government to minimize the attack as collateral damage." the pentagon promised promised a full investigation into what happened. defense secretary carter said -- "we do know that american air
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assets were engaged in the kunduz vicinity, and we do know that the structures that -- you see in the news -- were destroyed. i just can't tell you what the connection is at this time." we're joined a number of guests here in the united states and afghanistan. we are joined by dr. gino strada, co-founder of emergency, an italian ngo that provides free medical care to victims of war in afghanistan, iraq and other countries. he was just named winner of the right livelihood award. emergency operates a facility in kabul which has taken in over 40 patients from the kunduz hospital bombed on saturday. dr. gino strada joins us from italy. the lawn italy. , kathy kelly is with us, co-coordinator of voices for creative nonviolence. she is in portland, maine. her recent article is called "#enough! a campaign to end war , and focus on food and health." kabul to dr.o to
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hakim a medical doctor who has , provided humanitarian relief in afghanistan for the last decade. he works with afghan peace volunteers, an inter-ethnic group of young afghans dedicated to building non-violent alternatives to war. dr. hakim is the 2012 recipient of the international pfeffer peace prize. i want to go first to dr. gino strada. you're in milan, italy. the clinic you operate in kabul, afghanistan is taking in people from the kunduz hospital. can you tell us what you understand at this point? received 41have patients that were wounded all coming from kunduz. means,me by different many of them by themselves, some of them were directly transferred by msf personnel. for our staff in the surgical center in kabul, it was a great workload because we are ready at
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hospital capacity, quite fully, from the area of kabul. the number of civilian wounded in afghanistan has increased over the years. at the moment, we have around 300, 320 war related patience a month, which means more than 10 per day. kabul, them come from but we also have to cope with this war crime in kunduz. amy: dr. gino strada, if you can talk about the response of the united states saying they would conduct an internal investigation and doctors without borders responding that it cannot be done by one of the parties involved with the bombing? well, i am a surgeon, i am
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not a politician. what i have seen after spending many, many years, more than seven years in afghanistan, every time is the same story -- it is been a mistake. i see no difference between the two ideas. the reality is always the same, civilians are killed, civilians are wounded -- voluntarily or by mistake. they are related to war. in time we're in afghanistan, we have been looking after more than 140,000 were wounded all in kabul. kabul is just one of three surgical centers we have in afghanistan. the others and how one province province. it is been going on for years and years. so i'm not expecting anything to come out from the investigation. this will not bring back to life those who have been killed.
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it will not care for the wounds. amy: we're going to go to break. dr. gino strada is speaking to us on democracy now! video streaming come along, italy. we will also go to kabul to speak with dr. hakim who works with the war wounded in afghanistan's capital and kathy kelly just back from afghanistan. we will be back in a moment. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. are talking about the airstrike over the weekend by u.s. and afghan forces in the
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northern afghanistan city of kunduz on a doctors without borders hospital that has killed 22 people, the majority staff and children in this hospital. our guest are dr. gino strada, joining us from milan, italy, cofounder of emergency that operates a clinic in kabul and dealing with some of the were wounded as well from kunduz. is with us, head of afghan peace volunteers. .r. hakim, you are in kabul can you talk about the afghan response to this bombing in kunduz? >> thank you for having me on the program, amy. afghans have endured many, many years of mistakes that the u.s. and coalition's have made in bombings. unfortunate, the hospital in
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civilianst ordinary at like weddings. so i don't think afghans are surprised. there definitely angry. amy: and what you are saying --dr. gino strada just explained the clinic in kabul, that emergency is operating out of, the increase casualties, as i think people in the united states think of the war in afghanistan as certainly gearing down. that really shows how failed to media has tell the truth to the world. the war is going on. it is accelerating, both the red cross and the united nations has reported an increased civilian deaths in the past few years.
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it is getting worse. it is definitely not scaling down. i think americans need to know the taxpayer money is going to a war that is worsening. kelly, you're in portland, maine now, but you just returned from afghanistan. you're leading peace activist in this country and around the world, several times nominated for nobel peace prize. can you talk about what has just happened in kunduz and what you think needs to happen? >> well, amy, i think the united states military has began to show itself to be the most formidable warlord in the area. what is patently [indiscernible] terrible bombing of the hospital in kunduz at 2:00 in the morning, bombings that happened in 15 minute intervals. eyewitness survivors say was so terrible to be washing patients
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burned in their beds. this has left an entire region without a hospital. and the united states reserves it as collateral damage. the united states military made that reference. i think it is important to see this in the context of the health-care the united states has provided through usaid. in july, the inspector general issued a letter to the head of usaid, saying 80% of the hospitals and health care facilities they had listed is getting support from the united states -- you could not find the hospitals. they said there was questions raised about many of these locations. [indiscernible] locations reported by the united states.
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nursesu have doctors and being in a very terrible situation trying to deliver health care [indiscernible] amy: we're going to go to dr. gino strada and get your the telephone so we can hear you more clearly. dr. gino strada, in milan, italy, can you talk about what it means that doctors without borders will be shutting down their operation in northern kunduz after this u.s. airstrike on the hospital that killed so many? what will it mean for the people there? what kind of access will they have to medicine? >> well, this is a major problem that we still have to understand . the main issue is to ensure at the moment a sort of fast track, a fast corridor in order for the patients and wounded and those who will the wounded them a because fighting is ongoing.
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told as farbul were as emergency is concerned, the surgical center which is probably slightly closer to kabul then kunduz. in afghanistan, surgical facilities are very, very poor -- full and very few. we will try to make ourselves -- we will try to make sure the best we can that ambulance services will be available. amy: how does this compare to what you have faced with emergency, dr. gino strada, and also, congratulations on the announcement that you're just one the right livelihood award. .> thank you we're quite proud of this award because i think it is a good
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recognition for the tremendous work that emergency has been doing in the past 20 years. in afghanistan where we have one of the largest programs with three surgical centers, one maternity center, and 54 clinics scattered throughout the country. it is an important recognition and we are very happy. our programto have in afghanistan expand even further. one of the main questions now is, how to ensure delivery of the humanitarian assistance. what we've seen in the past years is that it is becoming more and more difficult to guarantee that wounded people or six people could safely reach hospitals. fighting,here is
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normal military from all parties -- the wounded. and this is a war crime. are preventing wounded people from being evacuated and looked after his definitely a crime. and this is done every day. but there's no investigation ongoing. it is widely accepted by everybody that wounded patients have no rights. and we know very well that more than 90% of these patients are who have neverle had a weapon in their hands, did not take part. and this is the social tragedy of the country. amy: kathy kelly, just back from afghanistan, what does it say about the reliability of drone surveillance and u.s. intelligence overall? >> given the coordinates of the
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hospital had been made very clear to the afghan military, the united states military, in the months leading up to this critical region and this past week, it certainly is clear the united states knew that or had it waselligence, knew bombing hospital and decided to go ahead with the attack anyway. the drone flights certainly frighten people in airstrikes like this frighten people and they don't know where to turn for protection, particularly in the rural areas, and now that a hospital in that region, they won't know where to turn for any kind of health care. has pouredted states enormous resources into drone surveillance, constant surveillance, that is supposed to establish patterns of life in afghanistan.
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far better of the people of united states would understand the hunger and the lack of health care, the disease that plagues people in afghanistan. and that is the cut of intelligence, the sort of literacy about the consequences of our wars that people don't have. amy: dr. gino strada, doctors without borders says they treat all people without discrimination. whether it is television, whether it is afghan civilians, whether would be u.s. injured, he you think that is part of the reason this hospital might have been attacked? if they are were -- if there were talibabn in the hospital? >> i would use the term "excuses." for five years ago, there was a hospital in the helmond province where we made public that more than 40% of the victims that we were treating in a hospital,
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children, and they were all injured by the bombing by the coalition around the villages of the helmond regions. and then we found several of our staff were arrested, that afghan security forces and uk's appear uk's security cas keystone's inound the pharmacy of the hospital. they probably put them there six hours before. witnesses of these crimes against the afghan people that is going on for years and years. and so it is not surprising that someone might have been disturbed by the situation and, therefore, they found an excuse to continue the killing. amy: "the new york times" put it, doctors with borders issued
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a statement they were disgusted by statements of afghan authorities trying to justify the strike of the hospital. the group's general director christopher stokes -- that was the head of doctors without borders, dr. gino strada . >> yeah, i could not agree more. i think everybody was trying to help the wounded in afghanistan is facing the same problem. the wounded are not all the same. someone believed some of the wounded do not deserve any rights because their enemies. involved in afghan
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politics, we're not taking sides, we're just trying to look after sick and wounded people. this creates a lot of difficulties for all the militaries involved in the situation. there is a solution? well, i think so. the solution is to understand -- we're inence complete agreement with the statement from the great human that war can only be abolished, cannot be humanized. that is the reality. every time we have to prove that this statement from einstein was the solution of the problem, we should abandon war. we should try to think and solve our problems in a different way.
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and this is very difficult to accept for someone, and very dramatic consequences also for helpless and those who are trying to help in war zones in difficult situations. there is no respect. no more respect for anybody. doctors, nurses -- they are all enemies. amy: i want to thank you all for being with us, dr. gino strada, cofounder of emergency, speaking to us from milan, italy. kelly.im and kathy kathy kelly is just back from afghanistan. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. on to the dramatic news of what has taken place in this country over the last week. a once-in-a-millennium downpour. that's what south carolina governor nikki haley is calling the torrential rainfall that's triggered massive flooding over the weekend. at least eight people have died in the carolinas.
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this is south carolina governor haley. >> when you think about what we are sitting in right now, we are at a 1000 year level of rain in parts of the low country. what does that mean? we haven't seen this level of rain in the low country in 1000 years. that is how big this is. that is how south carolina -- what south carolina is dealing with right now. the river is at its highest level since 1936. amy: according to the national weather service, the storm had dumped more than 20 inches of rain in parts of central south carolina since friday. researchers say extreme weather events are becoming more frequent with the effects of climate change. the year 2015 is on track to be the hottest in recorded history. scientists at the national oceanic and atmospheric administration recently released a report showing that july was the single warmest month in history. and nine of the 10 hottest months since record keeping began in 1880 have occurred since 2005.
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well, we spend the remainder of the hour bringing you part two of our conversation with naomi klein and avi lewis on their remarkable new film that re-imagines the vast challenge of climate change. the film is called "this changes , everything." 's is based on naomi klein book. yes, we dare to say what the meteorologists over the weekend come all the news reports 24 hours a day that are certainly dealing with this once in a thousand year flood in south carolina don't mention -- the words "climate change." i began by asking naomi klein and avi lewis about extreme weather conditions like hurricane sandy. this is a book from their film. >> but a strange thing happened as the fossil fuel economy spread over the world. the sacrifice zone got bigger
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and bigger. it started with the places considered the middle of nowhere . day, i watched it come to the place that sees itself as the center of everywhere. >> this was the moment when sandy struck. 90 mile per hour winds slicing through new york's streets. three quarters of a million people have been forced to evacuate. all those years we imagined that we had freed ourselves from nature's bond, that we were the boss. there was a part of the story we could not yet see -- our machines were filling the atmosphere with greenhouse gases. could it be that we are not the masters after all?
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herewe are just guests and we can get evicted for bad behavior? we just came out of, this clip on superstorm sandy, what it teaches us now. >> we were here in new york a week after the film -- after the storm. i watched her broadcast on those days and it was staggering. and i think now, everyone gets triggered with posttraumatic stress about these terrible, terrible climate-driven disasters. and i think there are fewer and fewer parts of the world where people don't hear the warnings and relive the last disaster, because this is a crisis of the now. and i think new yorkers really are in a state of returning, you know, having flashbacks to that. we need to harness that fear and that trauma, and actually turn it into healing and positive change. amy: blockadia, the grassroots
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movements around the world that are standing up to the fossil fuel companies. talk about this global phenomenon that the corporate media rarely covers, let alone links. >> well, it's been an extraordinary few years for the climate justice movement. i mean, to be here in new york in the fall is very emotional for us, because we were on the streets with almost half a million people in the people's climate march. and what made that moment so extraordinary was the diversity and the connecting-the-dots feeling of the movement these days. you have front-line communities, whether on the front lines of fossil fuel extraction or on the front lines of pollution, and, you know, marginalized communities. we know that the impacts of climate change and industrialization are racialized. the people of economic -- without economic means are much more vulnerable. and you see these communities coming together and connecting causes and naming the system at the heart of it. it's happening around the world. and what's really exciting nowadays, i think, is that we're starting to see not just the no to these damaging projects and
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to this logic of extraction -- extraction of wealth as well as extraction of resources -- but we're seeing more and more of the yes. so look at the divestment movement, which has exploded in three years, $1.2 trillion in capital now -- >> 4.6. >> how much? >> $4.6 trillion. >> $4.6 trillion in capital which is committed to divesting from fossil fuel investments. but it's not just the no to the fossil fuel stocks and bonds. it's the yes in terms of redirecting and reinvesting that money in community cooperatives, in renewable energy. and we're seeing this, and we see it throughout the film, the communities on the front lines of the no -- amy: explain those communities that you cover. >> well, so, we went -- so, for instance, we went to northern greece in the middle of this horrific economic assault, you know, of the austerity being imposed on greece, which is being used as an excuse to open up all these new dirty projects. they're talking about drilling for oil in the aegean and ionian seas, some of the most storied oceans in history.
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and there's this massive gold mine proposed and starting to be developed by a canadian company in a very beautiful area of northern greece. and there's this extraordinary community resistance to it, people in a fairly conservative part of the world, who are not activists, who are not lefties, who start to see what's being done in the name of this economic model and the excuse this brings -- amy: it fits very much in with your previous book, "the shock doctrine: the rise of disaster capitalism," naomi. >> well, i mean, the truth is, i see this book and this project as a sequel to "the shock doctrine," because that book begins and ends with hurricane katrina. and what we are seeing is what climate change looks like when you have an economic system that systematically fuels inequality, ever wider inequality, often along racial lines. and we know what it looks like. it looks like katrina. right? i mean, if you had money and
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resources, you were able to get out of the city, call your insurance company. but if you needed a functional state, you were out of luck, first of all because the levees were neglected, second of all because there was no evacuation, there was -- you know, fema couldn't find the superdome for five days. i mean, you know the story. but then, what happened next, right? the disaster-capitalism complex, as i called it in that book, descends on the city to privatize the school system, to get rid of public housing and replace it with condominiums, you know, to decide not to open charity hospital that serves the city's poor. so this book is an attempt to think about how do we respond to crisis collectively in a way that reduces inequality, that builds a fairer society, that is democratic instead of this incredibly antidemocratic process that i described in the shock doctrine. and look, you know, climate change is the biggest shock of all. it hits us with shock after shock after shock, whether it's a hurricane, whether it's the
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endless drought in california. and, you know, amy, i was really -- you know, it takes a lot to shock me, because i've been immersed in this stuff for a long time. but i didn't realize that a third of california's firefighters are prison inmates, being paid $2 an hour to fight california's -- yeah, and for calfire, it's apparently half of the firefighters. so this is incredibly dangerous work. they're being paid $2 an hour, or -- and if they're not actively fighting fires, some of them are being paid less than $2 a day. and it turns out that there are forces in california that are resisting prison reform measures that would lower california's prison population, because they're worried about the impact of their firefighter supply. this is what it looks like to try to deal with climate change within an economic con of what around the world is called neoliberalism, relentless austerity, which -- you know, one of the impacts of relentless austerity is increased
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incarceration, locking up and locking out the people who are losing within this economic system. so that's why we're calling for looking at the root causes of what is driving climate change, and also using climate change as a catalyst to build a fairer economic system. and what we show in the film is that people are doing this very organically. as they're fighting the fossil fuel projects, they're fighting for energy democracy, community-controlled renewable energy, that keeps resources in the community so they can pay for services. amy: naomi, you mention part of the crisis in syria is caused by climate change. explain. syria, rightow is before the civil war broke out, had the worst drought in its history, record-breaking drought. obviously, there are multiple drivers for any conflict, just as there are multiple drivers for any storm. it's not like you can say this is just because of climate change.
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but what we do know is that climate change loads the dice, right? it's an accelerant. so the storm would happen anyway, but because water is warmer, the storm is stronger. well, climate change is an accelerant on many different levels. so you have conflicts and tensions already, fueled by military intervention, fueled by support for dictatorship. but then when you layer on top a drought and the fact that people move and more and more people crowd into cities, and that causes more conflict. so it's not, you know, a direct causal this -- you know, x causes y. it's another layer fueling it. amy: what about the pope coming to town? he's left the building now. the pope is no longer in the united states. but he gave the first address a pope has ever given to a joint session of congress. before the pope came here, he was in cuba. before that, you were at the vatican. you were invited to address his unprecedented encyclical on climate change and the
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environment. what about his message here? >> well, i think, first of all, this reflects the fact that the climate movement, and specifically the climate justice movement, is growing. and it's growing in different constituencies. and the faith community is really, really a major part of this movement. you know, as i've said before, i think, in earlier discussions we've had, one of the things that's most remarkable about the encyclical is the way that it challenges dominant -- this idea that humans have a right to dominate nature, that everything in nature is just here to serve us. i think what's really most bold about the document is the way it celebrates interconnection, that we are all a part of this complex system, and that nature has inherent rights. i mean, this is something that the pope said when he addressed the u.n., which is -- i don't know if people understand quite how remarkable that is, because
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just a few years ago, before pope francis, under benedict, the holy see, which is -- you know, actually has negotiating status at the united nations as a country, would try to get references to the rights of nature and mother earth taken out of negotiating s when -- text when countries like bolivia and ecuador would put them in, because they didn't like this idea of natural rights, of nature having inherent value, because they were still subscribing, to some degree, to this idea of dominion. so there's a major shift. and look, i certainly don't agree with the vatican on everything. in fact, we could go through a very, very long list, which i won't go -- won't bore you with right now. but what i find most remarkable about this pope is he is a man in a hurry. you know, you think about this trip in the u.s. and all of the speeches he made. he's addressing congress. he's on the balcony. he's talking to the homeless. he's zipping to new york. i mean, how -- and it's dizzying, and it really -- this is what leadership looks like as if the world depended on it.
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you don't have to agree with him on everything, but the urgency of this political moment, the fact that we are on such a tight science-based deadline, the fact that it matters so much what we do in the next five years. i think from obama we've seen what it looks like as if your legacy depends on it. but we need to see leadership as if the world depended on it. amy: and -- >> and just what about the resonance that this message is having? i mean, i, as a canadian, you know, to be in the states right now and see the unbelievable support for bernie sanders and the enthusiasm for someone who's talking about inequality, relentlessly talking about inequality, and connecting it to climate change, which, of course, is central to the pope's message, too. these two intertwining crises are the defining crises of our time. and these two old guys, who are talking about it in very blunt ways, are summoning massive crowds and real resonance. and yet, you know, obviously, the mainstream media has no interest in connecting these topics or even really addressing them. but the popular support and resonance is just astonishing.
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amy: filmmaker avi lewis and author naomi klein on their new film, "this changes everything." when we come back, we talk about the leap manifesto, canada's upcoming elections, and shelves saying they won't be drilling in the arctic. stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue with avi lewis and naomi klein in part two of our conversation about their new film, "this changes everything." it is just premiering in the united states in new york at the ifc center. i asked naomi klein to explain link manifesto. >> so, in canada -- we're canadian -- we have been part of a process of bringing different social movements together to try to not just talk about what we don't want. you know, we don't want more pipelines. we don't want more fossil fuel infrastructure. we don't want our government to continue to be this climate criminal on the world stage, which we have been under stephen
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harper for far too long. but we spend a lot of time -- because we have this very extreme government keeping the bush dream alive, we spend a lot of time saying no. and, you know, one of the things that's come out of this project is that we need to have a fully articulated yes, a fully articulated yes of what the next economy looks like, because a lot of what holds us back is just this idea that there is no alternative, that, yeah, you can fight austerity, but then what you'll end up with is even worse. so we were really fortunate to be part of this meeting of 60 movement leaders, from labor, indigenous rights, climate justice, anti-poverty, migrant rights, in toronto for two days. and out of that meeting came this document, which we called the leap manifesto. and what it does is it maps out how we can transition away from fossil fuels very rapidly in line with what scientists are
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telling us we must do and what engineers are telling us we now can do because of these breakthroughs in technology, so getting to 100% renewable electricity within two decades, getting to a 100% clean economy by mid-century, but doing it in a way that systematically closes inequalities along racial and gender lines, so bringing energy democracy, control over resources to indigenous communities first, to front-line communities first. and what's been amazing is the way people have responded to this, both in canada and around the world, because now there's plans to write a leap manifesto in australia. we're hearing from people all over europe who want to do the same. there's even some interest in the u.s. and, you know, it's -- the political parties in canada are having to respond to it. some are running towards it, like the green party, saying this is -- you know, "our platform has much in common with it." some are running away from it, like the ndp is afraid of being associated with this radical document.
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but yet, you know, tens of thousands of canadians have signed it, including people like leonard cohen and ellen page. and it's just -- what we wanted was to put this on the agenda in the election and force a discussion. and it's happened. amy: what about the october 19 elections that will be taking place in canada, the significance of these elections? >> oh, avi is way better at talking about electoral politics than me. >> well, i mean, it's an unprecedented election in that we have three major political parties in canada. and a lot of americans understand that the fact that we have a third party, which traditionally was more to the left, is the reason that we have universal healthcare and a lot of our other progressive social programs. of course, in canada, since the 1980's, those programs have been under attack, and we've experienced a dramatic shift to the right, the way just about everywhere in the world has. but we do have three political parties. and in this election, after -- >> three major political -- >> three major parties. and in this election, after a decade of extreme-right rule
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from the harper government, we've had this amazing horse race where all three parties have basically been tied. now, in the last few weeks of the campaign, it looks like the new democratic party, the left-most of the three parties, is starting to fall behind. but there's an overwhelming number of canadians who want to change course from the harper years. >> and interestingly, the reason why that left party seems to be dropping behind is because they moved to the center, and they're being outflanked by the liberals, who have moved to the left. and a lot of the polling in canada is showing that people want -- don't want just gradual, incremental change. they're ready for more dramatic change. and this is why we're seeing more support for the leap manifesto. but, you know, look, stephen harper is an incredibly unpopular prime minister, and because of that, there are a lot of people who are going to be voting strategically for whoever they believe has the best chance of beating harper, because there's a lot of concern about splitting the vote. and that's the other thing that we're doing with the leap manifesto. if people are voting for a party
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that doesn't reflect their full aspirations, particularly on climate change because not one of these three major parties has made climate change an election issue, the leap manifesto gives them an opportunity to say, "ok, this is where i'm casting my ballot, but this is what i actually believe in." and our hope is that we'll end up with a government that is not the harper government, maybe it will be a coalition government, and it will be looking for, ok, what mix of policy platforms from the liberals, the ndp and the greens are we going to embrace and make our platform, and that the leap manifesto can really have an influence on that process. amy: can you talk about what just happened in the arctic -- i think, to many people's shock? you had the kayaktivists, the environmentalists converging along -- all through the northwest to try to stop shell from drilling. you have president obama, the first sitting president of the united states to go to the
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arctic, giving some of the best climate change speeches ever. and yet, right before he went, he approved drilling in the arctic. and then shell announces they won't be doing it, though he had given them permission? >> yeah, and though they had spent, i think, $7 billion on this adventure over the years. you know, it's remarkable. and one of the things that i think one has to understand is that the fossil fuel industry will go to great lengths not to credit activism as being a contributor to a decision like this, because -- >> well, think what they could encourage, if they did. >> they don't want to encourage us, yes. but i believe that this is a victory that absolutely should be claimed by this remarkable movement. amy: author naomi klein and filmmaker avi lewis on the new documentary, "this changes everything." it is now plain in new york at the ifc center.
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that does it for the show. this breaking news, the united states and 11 other pacific rim nations have reached a deal on the transpacific partnership. we will discuss this on tuesday show. ♪ [captioning made possible by democracúúúúúúúú
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